Talk:Infiltrator Guide (Mass Effect 2)
Weapons-snipers I'm playing an infiltrator and really like the information on this page, but the sniper rifle section under the weapons heading is really convoluted and sloppy. I'd edit it myself but down know the information as I'm not far enough in the game. If someone could clean this up and maybe talk about each sniper rifle individually instead of all jumbled together it would be much appreciated. Another complaint, if someone even reads this, is could someone put something down for beneficial weapons training? It only mentions the widow in the sniper section, but doesn't say another about the claymore or revenant. Thanks Wooooood 15:47, February 5, 2010 (UTC) You're right, the sniper rifle section is kind of a bad non-flowing blurb of ammo hatred. I'm playing through on an Infiltrator right now myself, so I'll try cleaning that up later today with some real in-game information. Also the reason that Claymore or Revenant are not mentioned is because Infiltrators can only pick up the Widow, and it's a general idea that the Widow sniper is much more useful than being able to use Assault Rifles or Shotguns for an Infiltrator, especially since they can't get Claymore or Revenant, and would just be limited to the ARs/Shotguns you have in the game otherwise. (Note, I didn't write the page up, a bit of what I said made it sound that way) Jaline 17:02, February 5, 2010 (UTC) Did a clean up on the sniper information, giving in-depth comparisons between each rifle, and giving each of them some merit to actually being used, instead of simply stating "Just use the Widow" Jaline 17:38, February 5, 2010 (UTC) : Thanks for organizing the sniper section, I think I'm gonna go through and clean it up a little, combine some sentences to make it smoother, thanks for getting all the info down. Wooooood 18:11, February 5, 2010 (UTC) Some discussion of alternate weapon training could be useful. While the Widow is a great weapon, the Viper is perfectly viable due to its large ammo capacity and rapid fire. The Widow does 368 damage per shot vs the Viper's 82, roughly 4.5 times as much damage. The Viper has a little more than 4.5 times as much ammo as the Widow, and it's not uncommon to get a dozen rounds from a single thermal clip, making the Widow more ammo efficient but lower damage per shot. It's more complicated than that due to bonuses from attacking from cloak, and while the Widow is easily the better choice against extremely toughly enemies, a few headshots from the Viper are still enough to drop normal enemies on harder settings. Personally, I've had good luck using shotgun weapon training. The Eviscerator shotgun is an amazing weapon, doing 294 damage if all eight pellets hit, and non sniper weapons get a x2 damage bonus from point blank range. The Widow isn't absolutely necessary at range, and the Eviscerator shotgun allows for a very different playstyle with much greater versatility. Shotguns are also effective against shields/barriers, particularly with the +50% shield/barrier damage research, allowing Incinerate to pick up Reave or Warp Ammo's job against armor and use of a different special power without leaving a hole in your ability to handle barriers. As for assault rifles, they don't really bring too much to the table. At long range sniper rifles are better and they're both good at mid range, while at close range shotguns are better. They are good against barriers though.Pax Empyrean 15:14, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :AR's are worse against barriers/shields than smgs tho (and shotguns are good against barriers/shields too), so they don't bring anything new to the table there either. As for Widow vs Viper, you've got to remember that the viper can only get a couple shots out before assassin cloak runs out and requires you to be much more time exposed while doing regular shots to kill, dangerous on higher difficulty levels with shepard having a paper shield. The slower killing speed may also become troublesome on places where you get swarmed like tali's mission & loyalty or the many blue suns missions. :Viper is however a superior choice when dealing with mass lokis, husks and vorcha, or at veteran or lower where most enemies don't have special protections. TGBlank Definitely valid points comparing the Viper to the Widow, but enemies tend to come in two flavors: those who advance on you, and those who don't. Against enemies that don't advance on you, you can take your time. The Viper will take longer since you'll have to take more cloak/snipe cycles to clear everything, but that time is just spent behind cover where you're effectively invulnerable. Trying to finish fights quickly with the Viper will get you killed. The enemies that advance on you can get a shotgun blast to the head at point blank range from stealth, which can be combined with squadmate powers to instantly kill them or render them vulnerable to throw/lift/hack/whatever, which is just as good. The damage from the Eviscerator at point blank is tremendous, especially with the shield/barrier damage upgrade. The Widow does about 25% more damage than the Eviscerator per shot, but is ineligible for the x2 point blank damage modifier.Pax Empyrean 16:25, February 21, 2010 (UTC) Who keeps post that Sniper Rifles are effective against shields? THEY'RE NOT. STOP CHANGING THAT SECTION. 20:31, October 15, 2010 (UTC) :I've always found them to work fairly well against barriers. After all, two of them even have bonuses against them. As such, I see no need for people to stop adding valid info, though it is always nice when people not ask others to stop posting valid info. SpartHawg948 20:34, October 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Indeed even the description for the M-29 says "designed to overload active defenses such as shields" Along with that it carries a 1.25x damage against sheilds and barriers. So how is the information not accurate as I have found that using sniper rifles to be very good at draining sheilds. Lancer1289 20:38, October 15, 2010 (UTC) :::Because saying that Sniper Rifles are effective against shields because 2 of them have minor bonuses to damage would be the same as saying shotguns are effective against armor because 2 of them have minor bonuses to armor damage. However, all sniper rifles are highly effective against armor, and all shotguns are highly effective against shields and barriers. Which one would make more sense in saying? 20:42, October 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::Giving all the information makes the most sense. And the information does back the notion that sniper rifles are effective against shields. And yes, I have found shotguns to work fairly well against armor. You may not have, but others have. And you do not have a monopoly on this guide. Other peoples experiences matter too. SpartHawg948 20:44, October 15, 2010 (UTC) :::::Indeed giving all of the information makes the most sense as you present the reader with all of it and not just chunks that you disagree with. These guides serve the purpose of providing readers with valuable information about the class, what it can do, and what is the best way to fight, and in order to do that we have to take everyone's experiences into account. You are not the only person who played the game as ME2 sold over 2 million copies in the first week, and every plays differently. Just becuase you disagree with something and it didn't work for you doesn't mean that it didn't for anyone else. Removal of valid, and informative, information is considered vandalsim and a bannable offense. Remember that just because something didn't work for you doesn't mean that it doesn't for anyone else, and vice versa. Lancer1289 20:49, October 15, 2010 (UTC) Okay, stupid question time. It's maybe just me- but the way the talking was done about the upgraded heavy pistol made it sound at least to me as if the poster was saying, hey, the heavy pistol is useless once it's upgraded! I actually did think this myself at one stage, took the basic pistol instead of the upgraded one. tbh, I discovered it didn't matter about the lower ammo capacity- the upgraded pistol dealt a bigger amount of damage, and usually got the firefight over quicker in that regard. I don't know the ins and outs of games, I just play them- but saying something can't be used in an extended firefight, where there's always some form of heat clip lying around when somebody dies and drops it, AND it deals more damage...? I don't know, it just seems to me the tone when talking about heavy pistols is wrong in my experience, not necessarily everyone elses. 02:58, December 21, 2010 (UTC)herecomethecalvary Reave? Given that Infiltrators already have two ammo types, wouldn't Heavy Reave (anti-barrier, anti-armor) be a better choice for Advanced Training? It'd let us tackle the only defense we can't touch, as well as being superior damage vs Armor. We could then retrain Heavy Incinerate into Blast for an AoE. -DarkJeff 05:36, February 8, 2010 (UTC) : As a side note, I think that the bonus talents should be cleaned up in general. The whole warp vs. armor piercing sections is wordy, convoluted, and largely redundant. Whoever wrote it simply repeated themselves in the paragraph and pros and cons section, so maybe we should revamp the bonus talent section entirely, one where we mention different possible bonus talents unless everyone is in unanimous agreement that warp ammo is the only bonus worth even considering. Wooooood 15:31, February 8, 2010 (UTC) ::The funny thing is, I read elsewhere that Shredder Ammo is the only bonus ammo worth considering for Infiltrators, heh. +80% damage vs +50%. I think I'd still prefer Reave, though - for the ability to hit things around cover, if not because it's the highest damage against Armor and Barriers available. 80 DPS for 5.5s vs Armor/Barriers = 440 damage, or 80DPS for 4s for 320 (area). Comparatively, Heavy Incinerate is 210 over 3s. So it's 70 DPS for Heavy Incinerate, and about 56 DPS for Area. Against anything other than barriers and armor, Incinerate does more damage, but it's our primary anti-armor ability. So like I said, I would think having the single version of one and the blast of the other would give good crowd control and anti-armor/barrier abilities. I dunno, I just don't see the need for a 3rd ammo power. -DarkJeff 16:29, February 8, 2010 (UTC) :: The only reason I could see the ammo as better is it's simplicity: throw it on at the beginning of a mission and don't worry about it until you're done. Reave has a six second cooldown I think, meaning that's six seconds you can't spam incinerate or cloak. I personally think both have their merits, which is why I'm really pushing for a section on possible bonus talents worth considering. I'd give input, but I'm only just starting loyalty missions on my infiltrator. Wooooood 19:48, February 9, 2010 (UTC) :The other argument is that, in some people's point of view (including my own, though I'm not going to claim my opinion is the only valid one), Cryo Ammo is worthless, particularly on harder difficulties where enemies are more likely to have defenses. So if you subscribe to that theory, Infiltrators only have one (useful) ammo power, and that power, while awesome in the right circumstances, provides only a minor bonus when fighting organic opponents. By slotting Warp Ammo, you cover your bases; use Warp Ammo most of the time (since it helps against three out of four target types), switching to Disruptor when fighting Geth, combat mechs and and Eclipse mercs (who are often shielded and/or accompanied by mechs). I'm currently playing around with an Infiltrator that maps Disruptor to LB and Warp to RB and switches on the fly to suit the target and it seems to work pretty well. My first character was an Adept, so relying on weapons instead of active powers is a big change of pace; using Reave would be backsliding. ShadowRanger 22:03, February 17, 2010 (UTC) The discussion on Reave doesn't make a whole lot of sense. In the PC version at least, it hits instantly and can't be arced around corners. Also, when used against armor the regular functions don't take effect; it does damage instantly instead of over time and it doesn't heal you. I think it works based off of a damage multiplier applied to the "all powers do damage to shields/barrier/armor" effect. Incinerate works the same way. There's also no range limit on Reave; you can scope in on the most distant enemies in the game (say, across the huge areas on Tali's recruitment mission) and fire it off through the sniper scope. Works just fine.Pax Empyrean 14:52, February 21, 2010 (UTC) Builds Just putting this up as a notice- class builds, as has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere (such as Talk: Gold Standard Class Builds) are inherently a matter of opinion, not fact. As such, they have no place in the articles, but rather belong in the forums. For an example of what a proper class guide page should look like, please consult the Adept Guide page. Note that it is build-free, but contains all the factual material you could want. As such, I'm going to be removing class builds from these pages, but figured I'd give some notice so that people could move the info to the forums if they want to just copy/paste it. I figure I can hold off till sometime Saturday (what can I say? I'm impatient.) before actually removing the info. SpartHawg948 08:34, February 12, 2010 (UTC) Cryo Ammo and insane/Hardcore difficulty One little often overlooked fact about cryo ammo is that husks die instantly if frozen, they also have a 100% chance of being frozen with only 1 level on the power while using the pistol (as long as the shot damages their life at least). This means that with cryo ammo lvl 1 you only need 2~3 shots to kill a husk in insane (only 1 if you throw an ally warp or an incinerate or an ally inferno grenade first to remove their armor), compared to, say, the 4~5 shots needed to do the same with warp ammo. This makes having lvl 1 cryo ammo quite handy on the husk levels, particularly since they don't drop heatsinks and one would want to reserve the sniper ammo for the scions or other foes. :True, but other powers also cause instant death, with the same requirements (defenses must be removed). Lift, Throw, Shockwave, Singularity, Concussive Shot, maybe others. Those levels can be solved with a pair of biotic party members. Cryo Ammo is handy, but I'm not sure it's enough to make a concrete recommendation. I view Cryo Ammo and AI Hacking as the "dump" skill; with 51 points from 30 levels, you can max out 5 skills out of 7 and put one point in a dump skill. Is it more useful to add yet another "Husk insta-kill" power, or to occasionally even the odds with a short term AI hack? They're both useful in specific contexts, but neither is must have. ShadowRanger 19:14, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::And none of the other insta-kill powers are in the infiltrator's arsenal, add in that allies have worse cooldown than Shephard. Regarding ai-hacking, the infiltrator can already tear through synthetic enemies thanks to overload ammo (they also tend to drop heatsinks), but can't really do the same with husks. Cryo ammo 1 is more efficient (bullet-wise) for them than all the other available options. What i'm saying is that putting the dump point on it relatively early is not a bad idea, could save a lot of headaches on horizon, iff or the husk mine. :::Area dominate is, or at least it can be. Tetracycloide 21:23, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :::A decent point. I always forgot that allies have worse cooldown times (and of course, they don't have Singularity at all, which was really handy for my Adept on my first playthrough). OOC, what do husks count as? Synthetics or organics? If you've got Cryo it obviously doesn't matter, but if you don't, do you want Disruptor or Warp slotted? ShadowRanger 20:51, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::Ah, area dominate would prevent you from bringing warp ammo, it also requires cooldown and to bring down the enemy armor (unless you're playing on vetaran or lower); in the cryo ammo case one can spam incinerate to bring down the armor of 2-4 husks and then 1hko them with the pistol. Rinse and repeat. ::::Husks are organic, and also have armor, so yeah, either warp or AP ammo would work best against them. I would also consider bringing the viper instead of the widow on husk-exclusive levels (not worth it on collector/husk mixed levels, 1hko collector drones is just too sweet to pass up). ::::I personally find the Heavy Geth Shield Boost to be a major advantage on an insane playthrough. With an Assassin Cloak, Visor, Heavy Disruptor Ammo, N7 Shoulder Guards, Stabilization Gauntlets, Agent, and the Widow, I'm able to kill all but the boss level characters, krogans, and the "special" enemies in one shot but a follow up shot normally finishes the Engineers, Sentinels, etc off and the boss characters going down in about 3-5 Assassination headshots. I just find the Heavy Geth Shield Boost to be extremely beneficially in moments that I would normal be dead in since Agent makes my recharge rate on all my powers extremely fast. Insincerity 00:43, February 20, 2010 (UTC) :::::Hmm, geth shield boost is not a bad take, tho it leaves you to rely on the smg or allies for barriers, not a bad take for the brunt of the game, but i'd switch to warp for the endgame in order to 1hko collectors and deal heavier damage to terminator. Dunno if agent's 15% cooldown can offset assassin's extra 6% of weapon damage tho. :::::Still, both are completely unrelated to taking, or not taking, 1 level of cryo relatively early to deal with husks. Warp vs Armor Penetrating ammos If one were to replace every usage of the word 'armor' with 'barrier', 'sniper rifle' with 'SMG', and 'warp ammo' with 'armor penetrating ammo' the entire section would be just as strong an argument in favor of AP ammo as it currently is for warp ammo. The comparison is incredibly flawed simply because it assumes the sniper rifle is the only relevant weapon and that it's already effective enough against all enemies with armor, neither of which is true.Tetracycloide 00:29, March 6, 2010 (UTC) :Let's couch the advantages of each in slightly more accurate terms. In every mission where there are no collectors Armor Penetrating Ammo is always better because barriers are very rare outside of the occasional vanguard or biotic boss. In the collector missions i.e. the plot missions, the trade of is -20% damage against health and armor for +50% damage against barriers. In very real terms this means for most collector enemies a gain of +50% damage against their defense and a loss of 20% damage against their health and for most of the support enemies, like husks, abominations, scions, and praetorians, a loss of 20% damage against everything for a gain of 50% damage against the praetorian's shield. I think in the collector heavy plot missions warp and armor penetrating ammo are a wash depending on whatever gives you trouble while everywhere else in the game armor penetrating ammo is clearly superior. The older comparison is also completely wrong in assuming that incinerate doesn't work against barriers, it does. Tetracycloide 00:39, March 6, 2010 (UTC) : Cleaned out a lot of the bias towards Warp ammo(it left me with the impression that anyone who didn't take it was blantantly in the wrong, and obviously inferior to one who was), but I left the section in. I would personally suggest removing it completely, as it doesn't really add to the guide beyond tossing around a massive bunch of opinions. Clarification within each of the ammo's descriptions would more than suffices as a way to sell its use. Skelethin 01:31, April 10, 2010 (UTC) The Infiltrator in ME2 is so polytechnically potent, as the page rightly emphasizes, flexibly hardy in next to any squad combination, any ammunition is as "superior" as one's brain is in determining the case-by-case combat conditions of each individualized, discrete mission. People chose one or another ammo power to deem worthless (most usually, Crionic or Disruptor) but with all sniper variants, with all ammo options, I have done passably on Insanity - tailoring the arms to the mission is the factor determining success - there is no linear scale of simplistic "supremacy"... Putting every literal ammo on the Infiltrator in some sort of manic attempt to be the Ubermensch of Ubermenschen, on Insanity just DO NOT WORK... Bonus Power Comparisons Is there any real need for these to begin with? After cleaning them up, removing the MASSIVE bias for Warp Ammo, they seem frivolous, and do more to clutter the guide than add to it. The ammo comparison makes some sense, but even then, it is pointless for the page. The warp ammo vs Reave should just be removed out right. Planning to remove both completely in a week or so if no one has any objections. Skelethin 01:49, April 10, 2010 (UTC) : With no objections, I'm going to remove both sections. Revert it if you feel this is error. Skelethin 17:27, April 17, 2010 (UTC) Shredder Ammo? I noticed nothing is said of Shredder Ammo as an option. Why is this? The presense of armor, barriers, and shields varies across enemies, but nearly every one (all except synthetics) has health. If Miranda's in your party, you have powers that strip all three kinds of protection. Even if you don't, you have a sniper rifle and perhaps Incinerate with big bonuses vs. armor and an SMG with big bonuses vs. barriers and shields. I suppose it's just possible that Shredder Ammo is seen as overkill for a sniper, but I've found it very useful with the SMG (which is my primary weapon, mostly because the Widow has so little ammo capacity). Servius 03:48, March 6, 2010 (UTC) :Shredder Ammo's usefulness depends mostly on how you use your weapons. Damage is calculated on impact with multipliers for whatever the target has active at the time and any damage beyond dropping the defense that's up just bleeds over. So if you usually drop the target's defense with powers, then go for the headshots it's great. If you want to one-shot with the widow it's terrible on insanity because everything has a defense of some kind and the shredder ammo adds nothing against them. In actual play there simply aren't very many organic foes with a significant amount of health compared to the defenses they have so the small boost to health damage isn't worth it.Tetracycloide 03:31, March 7, 2010 (UTC) Flashbang I noticed Neural Shock was suggested as a crowd-control ability which, from what I've seen, my play-style desperately needs. I though that Kasumi's flashbang might be more effective; how does it rate as a bonus power for Infiltrators? Tahaneira 15:53, May 31, 2010 (UTC) :Not too well to be honest. The duration of incapacitation is too short compared to the cooldown (Only does the "Improved" specilization have a 1:1 ratio of cooldown to incapacitation). It has terrible synergy with Tactical Cloak since you can't drop them on top of each other. Neural shock has only a 3 second cooldown which still gives you 6 seconds between the end of the cooldown and the end of the incapacitation even with Neural Shockwave, allowing you ample time to cloak and put down a good headshot. Tanooki1432 17:39, August 25, 2010 (UTC) ::As someone who used Neural Shock for quite some time, I now prefer the Flashbang Grenade. Yes, the cooldown poses issues with Tactical Cloak, however I have personally found that this is negated by throwing the grenade, then breaking cover immediately after it explodes and taking a headshot (or with the viper, 2 or 3 headshots.) This works well for 2 reasons. First, Neural Shock only affects organics, and only does so once their defenses have been stripped away. That is, when I used to hit Eclipse Sentinels with Neural Shock, it would give a brief knockback, but no stun. This may only happen with Tech Armor, but either way, they're immune until it's down. With the grenade, the stun effect "penetrates" any and all protections. That is, it doesn't take out shields, barriers, or armor (well...no more than the damage does) but it will stun them even if it doesn't break protections. In effect, this is the same as the argument against Shredder Ammo above - while the damage multiplier may be higher, you won't encounter unprotected enemies nearly often enough to make up the difference. Flashbang Grenade also affects synthetics, organics, and everything else besides bosses (i.e. not praetorian, though I have stunned several Scions with it, and numerous generic Collectors.) This isn't important if you invest in AI Hacking, as it covers everything that Neural Shock doesn't, but if you want to spend 10 points just once and can work around the lengthy cooldown, Flashbang Grenade is overall superior to Neural Shock.--Chuckmoney 00:23, January 4, 2011 (UTC) Preferential treatment This needs fixed up, removing the preferential treatment for some of the evolutions and equipment. It's very subjective and is affected both by party composition and play style. This bias is present in all, or nearly all, articles related to skill and equipment choices. In this article in particular, there is a preference on the evolution of disruptor ammo. There is of course more opinion in other areas of the article, such as choosing to research cryo ammo at all or not. Not everyone is playing the game to get the most efficient combat, but simply to have fun, to enjoy visual effects, or to (gasp) role play. Preferential treatment for any skill or weapon has no place in any wiki article except one focused on example builds. For my part, I prefer to always take the squad bonused evolution rather than the personal one, since as I tend to conserve as much ammo as I can personally by allowing my squadmates to do most of the shooting. I (again, personally) enjoy the look of the cryo-loaded weapons and the visual effects. If my goal were to simply burn through the combat as quickly as possible, I'd choose the most effective ammo and powers, but that is not always my (or others) goal. Bsdasym 17:45, June 15, 2010 (UTC) : This guide is not for people who are simply looking to play the game for visual efffects or role play. This is a guide in how to effectively use the Infiltrator class. After looking all the major power articles, there is already a rather minimal influence of preferential treatment. : Your comment on the preferential treatment of any evolution of powers is largely unfounded. Cryo has a well done section that covers anything you would do with it, even allowing for your playstyle, which happens to have specific mentions to various parts(lower ammo usage, letting allies kill stuff). The advanced training powers have also been reduced to a relative level on being unbiased. : The only place that has anything like you are refering to is Disrupter, which honestly isn't that good of a squad power to begin with, and offers so much more to the player as a heavy power. The only Ammo power that is really worth using as a Squad version is Cryo, as it offers an ability that simply isn't there with anything else in the game, excpet Cryo burst, and none of the allies have it either. 18:49, June 15, 2010 (UTC) :: The disruptor preference is blatant, Heavy Disruptor ammo is '''preferred' because it increases the damage of your weapons on shields tremendously and many squad-mates already have ammo powers that they use instead.'' Not only is that an admitted preference, it's an incorrect one; or rather, it is a huge oversimplification. Other squadmates having "ammo they can use instead" is irrelevant without determining if that ammo is better or worse than HD in a given situation. :: Despite what you may think, the overall tone of the article becomes preferential when many sections contain unfounded preferences, even if they are unintentional. As another example, the statement switching weapons/ammo just to finish off the health is usually not worthwhile is contained in the cryo section. No explanation is given as to "why" it is "usually not worthwhile." :: My point isn't that the whole article is biased in a particular direction, but that the individual preferences expressed without providing a basis for them causes the entire article to appear biased at worst, or unfounded at best. Bsdasym 16:20, June 18, 2010 (UTC) :::I'd have to agree with Bsdasym here on this one. This guide is very bias towards certain choices, which isn't its purpose, and inconsistent with the rest. Actually there is no consistency between the class guides for the games. Because of that, I am currently rewriting each class guide to meet a new standard. However I am only halfway through, becuase it takes time. I am rewriting this one now and I hope to have them up in a few weeks. They take time. Lancer1289 16:24, June 18, 2010 (UTC) Armor in ME2 This is something that I think applies to all the ME2 class guides, but because I'm an infiltrator, I'm going to smack it here... Should we have a section detailing the various pieces of armor lying around in ME2? I know for some people, armor might be something they take for its aesthetic appearences rather than bonuses, but this is a guide and we cover the weapons, why not the armor? Tanooki1432 16:44, August 12, 2010 (UTC) :Because the amount of armor and the ability to choose which pieces you wear allows for too many variables, could we "recommend" what pieces? Sure. But it's easier to just detail the weapons as they can be clearly defined how they differentiate and there's only a handful of them. It's also my opinion that there shouldn't be a big section of Heavy Weapons. We all know what they do, just talk about which ones compliment the Infil (and other class pages) in a small paragraph.--Xaero Dumort 17:01, August 12, 2010 (UTC) ::Adding to that, because some people go the entire game without buying armor pieces, or even using them. When I rewrote the guides, I considered an armor section, but I found that it was common for armor components to be switched out between missions and assignments based on who/what you are fighting. I also found that armor is also greatly based on personal playstyle and aesthetics, in addition to the various assignments. I have also found that all of the various armor components and armor combinations vary greatly depending on personal playstyle, mission/assignment, and squad combination. Overall the section would have been too subjective because eventually everyone finds armor components that work for their playstyle, regardless if they are good for the class or not. I have yet to use the exact same armor components in back to back missions or assignments, let alone playthroughs. Lancer1289 17:18, August 12, 2010 (UTC) Lancer makes a great point, as opposite him, I use the same armor set regardless of the mission. This shows how playstyle really changes what is viable in a guide.--Xaero Dumort 16:38, August 13, 2010 (UTC) :I cannot agree more that a section on armor would be too lengthy if nothing else. However, would it really be so bad to have 1 or 2 sentences that mention, even if not what armor, what attributes work best for a given class? For example, since Infiltrators use weapons with a rather low ammo capacity, any armor which boosts this is a good idea. This isn't something I could see anyone in disagreement with. Some might argue that you should focus on shields, others on power damage, others still on headshot damage. These things will change based upon play style, however I still can't see anyone playing without armor that boosts ammunition. A short mention of this shouldn't be a problem.--Chuckmoney 00:31, January 4, 2011 (UTC) ::Yeah except I see a big, big problem with that as it opens the door for more pieces. See the comments about armor changing depending on mission/assignment, personal tastes, etc. There are way to many variables with this and what pieces would we recommend for that matter? That section would get way too long, way to quickly and get out of control as pieces would be added, and deleted at random. Your idea has us picking one, and only one attribute you think is bad, while others may not upgrade ammo and focus on shields, or damage increase. Your idea also assumes a great deal about how people play. Just because you use ammo increasing armor components, doesn’t mean that anyone else does. This section would be way to subjective for a real guide because just listing components that "help" a class forces us pick and choose what components to add, that inherently has problems. Some may focus on other things that the guide says to focus on, and then add those components, then we would have to remove them because they aren't what we selected. Even if we kept them, all components would be up there after a certain period of time. This section is way, way to subjective for a guide as the section would quickly get out of control with every armor suit and component getting added over time. Armor is just way to subjective of a topic. Lancer1289 01:05, January 4, 2011 (UTC) Devs. acknowledged ME2 Terminus Assault Armor (closest ME3 comparison is Cerberus Phantom Armor, again, specifically designed for the Infiltrator or sniper-specialist - somehow, ME3 Terminus Armor got transformed into a sort of Vanguard overkill, hybrid item...) was specifically designed to fit the Infiltrator class. Just so people know...